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Talk:Shades
Hey I hope its ok, I used metal for Musui Nyojitsu, this sounds like a good idea.--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|'楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 11:59, March 23, 2011 (UTC) :Of course, I'm just glad the idea has been received well. Though a shade that has adopted a human form would be classified as a Yūgure. --Kazeyo 17:54, March 23, 2011 (UTC) Are There Two Sets of Rules Here?! You said this to me: And yet here, not only are you creating new types of chakra-based lifeforms with no chakra networks, jinchuuriki, hybrids, no you're creating brand new elements for god's sake. Somehow none of this "breaks the established canon." So let me get this straight. Electricity automatically generates and combines with magnetism, unless it's produced as an advanced element? Then and only then if it tried to combine with raiton chakra to produce new chakra it would "break the established canon"? This despite no such rule ever being stated in the established canon, not to mention the existence of kekkei tota and Obito's dark spheres? Plus the existence of chapter 612 which has ninja combining magma ash, water, and fire to create a brand new substance, concrete? All of this results in the conclusion that Jiton would be the only magnetism existing in the entire Narutoverse that would be incapable of combining with electricity to create light... or perhaps you mean raiton chakra or Koton chakra only? But this brand new wood element that controls (all?) plants and brand spanking new element that controls (all?) metal are now basic elements? But that doesn't make so much as a hairline fracture in the established cannon? So it's a smaller stretch that new types of basic elements exist that closely resemble old advanced elements made by new types of chakra entities with new ways to manipulate chakra than it is old advanced elements might combine with basic elements to produce another advanced element and so the former results in no breakage of the "established canon" and therefore no "incredible mess"? Seriously? lmao! '--CyberianGinseng 19:15, September 18, 2013 (UTC)' ---- Hehha, it seems you've put a lot of effort into this post. I'll try to address all your concerns with regard to my content, but I'll have to ask that you return any conversation regarding our discussion of your character to it's proper talk page. At that original location feel free to continue our talk on your elemental issues. Now, on to the task at hand. First of all, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to read through my article...I honestly appreciate it. I'll list out the issues and address them one at a time, when possible. *Chakra based entities: Having chakra-based creatures doesn't pose a issue at all for the canon. In fact, several users have created fanon tailed-beasts and chakra-based entities which can be thought of in a similar manner, and it doesn't clash whatsoever with the universe created thus far. *Lack of traditional chakra network: As explained in the article itself...rather than having a shinobi style chakra network, the chakra of Yūgure isolates around the spinal column and organs. I'm not seeing how this is an issue. I mainly designed the chakra of Yūgure in this manner to prevent them from using traditional techniques, forcing myself to create a new line of skills unique to the creatures at hand. This was done for the purpose of increasing the foreign feel of the creatures. *Jinchūriki: Considering nearly all Yūgure are vastly weaker than bijū, sealing one into a person would be like sealing all of the chakra of a single individual into a host. Such an event wouldn't be able to make an instant god-tier individual. Furthermore, Sasuske was basically the host of Orochimaru's chakra and consciousness...legitimizing the potential to seal sentient chakra, other than from a tailed-beast, into beings. *Hybrids: Does it not make sense that the offspring of two biologically compatible organisms would display composite traits from their parents. In fact, a hybrid Yūgure at it's strongest would have up to two elemental chakra types. This is far beneath any potential stretch, and is would result in a relatively average character. Furthermore, Yūgure hybrids can't possess KG...just because I wanted to impose such a restriction on my own work. Once again, I'm not seeing any issue. *Elements: Finally, we arrive at the last apparent issue you have with Yūgure, and perhaps the one you find most significant. First I'll explain why it is I created an original element system. From their inception I wanted Yūgure to come off as strange entities that are very much different than other chakra users. To this end you are already aware of their different chakra network setup. Due to this difference, they aren't able to peform techniques in a manner of other creaturs...it just isn't going to work. While some abilities may seem quite similar, they are fundamentally different due to the source of the skills. To this end normal elemental natures are a product of ninjutsu. As Yūgure can't use ninjutsu, their nature transformations aren't going to be identical. Thus I decided to adopt the Chinese elemental cycle, rather than use the modified Japanese one that is witnessed in the canon. I'm assuming that Fire, Water, and Earth aren't an issue to you, so I'll skip them. :As for Metal and Wood, in order to demonstrate I'm not trying sneak in KG abilities to the Yūgure I specifically explained how these Yūgure elements interact with canon chakra natures. This was done to specifically not break canon, and instead interact well with it. In case you skipped over this part, I'll explain it again here. While Yūgure wood beats earth...it loses to both wind and lightning. Additionally, it's potency is not on par with the Wood Release kekkei genkai...it would lose in a battle of equivalent techniques. Furthermore, while this element can manipulate plants...it's not as if a single user can control ever aspect of foliage on the planet as once. So...again...I'm not seeing the issue. Next, I'll move onto metal. This yūgure element is weak against chakra based fire from any source...hardly a force to stress out about. With the concern of being able to manipulate any type of metal, what's the problem? Nobody questions the type of soil an Earth Release user is manipulating. Furthermore, would you fight a fiery spirit creature with more fire...no. Therefore, maybe using metallic weapons against a metal-element Yūgure isn't a wise action. I recognize that you feel like Metal and Wood in my system have an advanced them to it, but considering that they interact quite fairly with the basic chakra natures...and truly advanced natures can't exist for Yūgure...I believe the system I have created regulates itself fairly and exists without stretching or modifying the canon. :If you still have concerns, feel free to post them here. Otherwise, I suppose I'll likely be hearing from you on your character's talk page soon. Peace. --File:300px-Sharingan Triple.svg.png Kaze File:300px-Sharingan Triple.svg.png (Come forth and speak) 00:08, September 19, 2013 (UTC) Nice try. You're deliberately missing the point. I don't have a problem with this article at all. It's called artistic license, which is what we all do here. My point is quite simply that I've done nothing on my own page that you didn't do here despite your protestations. You took artistic license with the source material that is beyond the canon. There's no way around it much as you might wish it so. What you're doing is called bias plane and simple. --CyberianGinseng 00:20, September 19, 2013 (UTC) ---- As suspected, this was merely about the issues regarding our previous discussion. Despite my previous comment, I'll explain it to you once more in this location. *Can electricity and magnetism naturally interact? Yes *Can the Lightning Release and Magnet Release interact? Sure, I don't see why not *Can the Lightning Release and innate magnetism interact? Sounds good to me *Can a character use some combination of the above to create light-based techniques? Seems plausible enough to me To reiterate *Does Lightning Release + Magnetism = Light-based Techniques? Sure...I like your ingenuity. It's kind of like a reversed photoelectric effect, cool. *But does Lightning Release + Magnetism = Light Release? No, as far as we know KG level advanced natures are formed from two basic elemental natures. *What about Lightning Release + Magnet Release = Light Release? No...it follows the same trend as above. Comparatively by using the example you gave *Does Lava + Water + Fire = Concrete-like substance? Apparently so. *But Does Lava + Water + Fire = Concrete Release? No...it does not. In summary, all of your techniques you've described are completely fine. Furthermore, I'm curious to see more of your work on this character. Despite this, the manner in which you've described Kittu Batista using the his light techniques doesn't constitute an advanced nature. I'm sorry sorry to tell you this, but if you really want the light techniques to be the product of an advanced nature...make a proper light release. Either way, your character's abilities don't change whatsoever. So, any supposed bias you're apparently witnessing wouldn't effect the range of skills he can possess. Though, I honestly don't know how you've come to equate our two pieces of work. In conclusion, I hope you understand what I've been trying to convey to you the entire time. If not...I guess we can keep going in circles over this. --File:300px-Sharingan Triple.svg.png Kaze File:300px-Sharingan Triple.svg.png (Come forth and speak) 01:07, September 19, 2013 (UTC)